Oh boy, I can already imagine the responses to this post.
There’s a great article on Medium, written by Julia Serano. It’s pretty complex and long, but worth a read. In it, Serano describes how the word “transgender” came about. She explains that trans activists in the 1990s coined the term purposefully intending it to be “open-ended”. She says the term “refers to people who defy societal expectations regarding gender”.
And here’s where things get dicey. Because some society members, including early stage trans attracted men spooked by their self-discovery, would say that trans attracted men do defy societal expectations regarding gender. But this is where things get crazy. And confused. People generally, and our trans attracted men specifically, have an Ouroboros perspective on what it means when a man loves women who happen to be transgender. I use the phrase “women who happen to be…” specifically because it points out the twisted logic. Which I’ll get to in a second.
If you troll Craigslist’s M4T sections in casual encounters. You’ll often find these men describing themselves as “straight.” This in my opinion is a result of the screwy perspective. I think the reason why these trans attracted men feel they have to clarify their orientations is because they don’t really believe women who happen to be transgender are, in fact women. Particularly men who are experimenting with being penetrated, or being attracted to women who have penises.
And the same goes for society. Society’s big beef with trans attracted men, calling them gay and such, stems from this flawed thinking. If transgender women are actually men, not women, then of course the men who are attracted to them must be gay, goes the thinking. So it’s no wonder trans attracted men must clarify in their posts that they’re straight. Unfortunately, for them, and their potential readers, this often comes off as an insult, because the women reading these posts are women. I think the reason they identify their heterosexuality in their posts has little to do with the women, and everything to do with their own self-view: They are writing their post as much for themselves as for those who will read it.
It’s interesting to ask: if trans attracted men are gay, wouldn’t they be interested in men who present as men? And I suppose the cynical answer is: not if they are too embarrassed to own their homosexuality. Being with a transgender woman could be more palatable for these terrified guys because at least they have some of the physical trappings of “real” women…
That argument doesn’t go very far when the trans attracted-to-transamorous trajectory is thoroughly examined. As a transamorous man myself, I know my process included experimenting with men and transwomen only to discover a profound distaste of men and an equal, continued attraction for both cis-gender and transgender women. I know and have talked with many men whose trajectories are similar. No doubt there might be men in the early stages of trans attraction who actually are gay and end up with men. But I would bet they are a tiny minority.
Back to “are trans attracted men transgender?” It’s an interesting question. Serano says this about the term “transgender”:
it may refer to transsexuals (i.e., people who transition, who I’ll get to in a minute), people who identify outside of the gender binary, crossdressers (i.e., people who identify with their birth-assigned gender, but sometimes dress and/or express themselves as the other gender), people whose gender expression is non-conforming (e.g., feminine men, masculine women, people who are androgynous, etc.), and possibly others. Not everyone who falls under this umbrella will self-identify as “transgender,” but are all viewed by society as defying gender norms in some significant way.
A man loving a woman who happens to be trans isn’t defying gender norms. Unless you think such a woman is not a woman. But such a woman is a woman. So where is the defiance? If there is defiance, it can only be defying society’s (false) assertion that women who happen to be transgender aren’t women. And since that assertion is false, so is any defiance.
I’ve had two conversations with transgender women who offered the idea that trans attracted men are transgender. I’m not so sure that’s the case. But I’m open to hearing the arguments.
What are your thoughts?
5 Replies to “Are trans attracted men “transgender”?”
Transgender women are women. Period. If we accept that, and I do, then this discussion is already over.
However, because this is breaking new ground there are some talking points that should be considered.
1. A trans woman could be, only attracted to number of people who are not male, this is not all that uncommon.
2. It could make a difference to a transgender woman whether a man is bisexual, gay or heterosexual.
3. Personally I don’t believe being attracted to a TG woman makes me gay, quite the opposite, because TG women are women. Also, not attracted to men on any level.
Now, are trans attracted men transgender? It’s a great question. Which requires some thought and further discussion. When we consider how many different types of people fall under the term transgender? Maybe, that is the case. I’m interested to see where that discussion goes.
Good points all Jeff. We agree with you: Transwomen are women. I (this is Perry) just said that in a video I recorded. Just as a trans attracted man can only be attracted to pre-op women, trans women can have similar preferences and ideals in a partner. Failure to recognize this is one of the perspectives causing the biggest rifts between the tow communities (trans community and the community of men who are attracted to trans women). Same is true for sexual orientation. No one need be ridiculed for their choices or for what/who they are.
This post is hopefully adding to the conversation among men who don’t have your breadth of understanding. We hope it provokes further thought. Your comments certainly did. So thanks!
If you need a label for us guys who love transgender women use GAMP it works for me.
I have a couple of thoughts. I don’t believe that dating a woman who happens to be transgender makes me gay. However, the fact that society chooses to make a bigger deal out of it than I do means that I live in the same “neighborhood” as everyone else on the LGBT spectrum.
Whether or not I am trans is an interesting concept. I can see someone making the argument that partners of transgender people are trans by virtue of their relationship. However, as you put it making such a leap suggests that a transgender woman is somehow less of a woman.
I am not suggesting that a relationship with a trans woman is no different than a relationship with a cis woman. Dating, loving and sharing a life with someone going through transition is very different though the farther along in transition your partner is the less different it becomes.
Yep to all you wrote Linden. This is why sometimes I hesitate using LGBT imagery. Are we men who date transgender women part of that LGBT family? Maybe indirectly. But since many of us are heterosexual guys, it’s not a natural thing to consider being part of that community…even if society says we are. What’s cool though is that this network is offering more (safe) space for guys like me to have this conversation. Thanks for participating and sharing your thoughts.